A theory about demons, souls, and psychology

[truepenny]

So Spike's big revelation moment--that was the demon, not my mother--set me thinking, and hooked up with thoughts I'd been having earlier about Angel and MPD. Because that whole demon/person dichotomy that Giles expounds back in "The Harvest": "... you're not looking at your friend. You're looking at the thing that killed him," has been questionable since "Doppelgangland" ("Well, actually ... that's a really good point.") and has become more and more questionable since the start of Season 4 (Harmony being no different as a vampire from what she was as a human; Spike's trajectory towards ... if not being good, then at least trying). And yet I think it is true that SpikeMum as vamp is NOT the same person as SpikeMum was when she was mortal, because I don't think that Mortal!SpikeMum is a hypocrite.

Which leaves us with a paradox. And I have a theory about how to explain it. And it fits in with my Angel/Angelus MPD theory, at least to a certain extent, so I'm feeling large with the geekitude and preparing to expound.

The demon that makes a person a vampire (as opposed to demons like Clem or Lorne or the Polgaras or Doc or any of the others, about whom I do NOT have a theory) is Mutant Enemy's metaphor for the Id. This is pop-psychology, but also I think workable as a symbolic system. The Id is not the person, so Spike's right to say that Vamp!SpikeMum was not his mother, but at the same time, the Id is a deeply buried part of the person, fettered by Ego and Superego, given no access to language or the conscious mind. Mortal!SpikeMum wasn't having those cruel thoughts about William's poetry, or that horribly dead-on-target interpretation of his psychology ... but her Id was. Mortal!SpikeMum never wanted to kill her child ... but her Id probably did. That's what the Id does; it feels and imagines all the horrible, perverted, savage things that the conscious mind, the Ego and Superego, cannot allow to see the light of day. But when you get vampified (thanks, Webs!), the demon lets the Id out. Harmony didn't change, because Harmony wasn't fettering her Id anyway.

Spike-as-Id gets an artificial Superego in the form of the chip, and I think what happens in S4, 5, & 6 is that we see an Ego starting to form around that artificial Superego (kind of like a pearl). It's not Spike's "real" Ego and Superego, because those are his soul; it's only enough for him to be able to recognize that he doesn't have them/it. (Kind of like the sf trope of the android or robot who is self-aware enough to recognize that it is not human.) And the tension between this artificial Ego&Superego and the Id which is fettered by them, but not integrated back into the subconscious the way it would be by the real Ego&Superego of the soul, is enough to tear Spike apart. The artificial E&S can't stop him from trying to rape Buffy in "Seeing Red," although they tell him exactly how wrong it is. The control being exerted over the Id (the Superego) is in the chip; the weak Ego formed around the chip-Superego can't stifle the Id. And that's why Spike can't live with what he has become. (I don't think I've said that very well, but basically I'm agreeing with Buffy: the soul DOES make a difference, and the grief and guilt Spike shows in "Beneath You" argues strongly that, ensouled, he wouldn't have tried to rape her, any more than, ensouled, Angel tries to kill her.)

So Buffy's right that Spike isn't the "man" who killed Nikki Wood, but Giles and Robin are right that that "man" is still inside him. The vampire is Spike's Id; with a soul, the Ego and Superego can override it, but it's still there.

And with Angel, things have gone a step further; Angel, as I've opined before, has mystic MPD; his Id has separated out from his Superego and Ego, and now calls itself Angelus. The Superego and Ego, glad to be rid of the Id (psychotic jerk that it is), acquiesce to this, and call themselves Angel. But Angelus, as he tells Faith in "Orpheus," is always there. The vampire-demon-Id is primitive, bestial, ineradicable. The Ego and Superego are the veneer of civilization, sentience, "humanity." They can be stripped away, as we see with both Spike and Angel ... and SpikeMum. The vampire both is and isn't the person they were before they were turned.

Anyway, that's my theory.

[vamp!Willow]
Questions? Comments?
[/vamp!Willow]

Comments

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

You have alot of (very interesting) thoughts. lol

Problem is, all this logic does nothing for poor Buffy, who keeps judging vamps and humans, souled and non, by one factor only: Do I wanna fuck 'em? If not, they get a pointy stick to the chest. Sigh.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

Hey, I only signed on to explain Spike's problems. I cannot do anything about the eternal mystery that is Buffy's brain.

Truepenny?

[swahiligrl.livejournal.com]

Um, can you be my mom? 'Cause that was f'ing brilliant!

Re: Truepenny?

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

Oh, you don't want me to be your mom. Trust me on this.

But thanks!

[renenet.livejournal.com]

Hi. I think your theory is wow, and I really like the way it handles in metaphor some of the very demons, souls, and etc. issues that heres_luck and I were discussing on the phone even as you were typing your post. (I can't draw the connections right now, but, don't worry, h.l took notes.) I find it to be a a very useful way of thinking about these matters, although I must confess that I never took Psych 100 and even my pop-psychology knowledge in this area is sorely lacking, so I'll basically subscribe to anything you say about Id, Ego and Superego. Must come back to this post and reflect when it's not, you know, midnight.

Freudian vamps

[scarcrest.livejournal.com]

I like this, a lot. Especially the idea that since Spike's Superego is artificial, he can never truly be redeemed, and that he'll always have less control over his Id impulses than Angel does.

[pdcawley.livejournal.com]

Buffy killed a human? When did that happen?

And she did kill Angel, and we know she wanted to fuck him.

[pdcawley.livejournal.com]

Liking that theory a lot. Liking it more the more I think about it.

Re: Freudian vamps

[pdcawley.livejournal.com]

Er... Spike's Superego isn't artificial any more. He got his soul back remember.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

No she didn't kill a human...my sentence structure sucked. Apologies. What I meant was that it doesn't seem to matter who you are, if she likes you *likes* you, you get a pass. She was gonna off Anya without a second glance. And yes, she killed Angel- although in S3 when he comes back in questionable shape she doesn't tell her friends, and then lies to them about her feelings for him. So I stand by my claim that she does a lot of her thinking with the wrong head.

Then, in S5 says she could never do it (kill someone she loves) again. Then goes on to kill herself in order to save both her sister and the world. Now she is saying "oh, I can kill Dawn to save the world." But not Spike. So yea, color me confused at her inconsitencies. And the writers'. It makes no sense. It gives me a headache.

[pdcawley.livejournal.com]

But she hasn't been asked to kill Spike to save the world. She's been asked to kill Spike because it would make things easier. Very, very different deal.

Re: Freudian vamps

[scarcrest.livejournal.com]

Well ... I was thinking of the incidents she mentioned, like the attempted rape. Granted, they all happened prior to this season. (Hey, Truepenny, how does his re-ensoulment fit into this idea?)

Re: Freudian vamps

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

No, by my theory, Spike as of S7 is every bit as ensouled as Angel--moreso, since over on Angel, they've been playing Button, Button, Who's Got the Button? with Angel's soul, whereas Spike seems to be using better glue. The artificial-and-therefore-weak Ego&Superego theory is all about the chip. Which is gone.

And having a soul doesn't stop people doing evil things, as Warren and Willow have demonstrated. Also, although my personal familiarity with Angel is limited to eight episodes ("In the Dark," "I Will Remember You," "Five by Five," "Sanctuary," "Supersymmetry," "Salvage," "Release," "Orpheus," in case anybody's wondering), my understanding is that Angel has behaved like Angelus on more than one occasion, despite his soul being present and ready for business. So the soul doesn't mean Spike (or Angel or any of the other characters) won't do evil things. It just means that they are fully responsible for what they do.

And, as I was saying on someone else's LJ, if Spike was evil now, soul or otherwise, Robin Wood would be dead.

Bravo!

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

::clapping::

Honestly, this was one of the best discourses on the nature of the demon in the Buffyverse that I've ever stumbled across.

Loving all your posts, of course, but this one is especially noteworthy.


On the Poems Lamenting War-- appreciate them greatly; loved the last one, once more.

& :-)

Re: Bravo!

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Glad you like.

Always do. & ;-)

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

If you felt like it, you could check out my humble little review of LMPT being posted later tonight.