Query to the masses

[truepenny]

I'm wondering about something.

I, personally, am extremely stupid about pain. As in, for a random example, yesterday I had a pounding sinus headache; I called Mirrorthaw around one o'clock to coordinate plans and mentioned the foul headache. He said, Have you taken anything for that? I said brightly, I'm planning to, with lunch. Which was retroactively not a lie, but which did gloss over the fact (which I'm sure he knew) that it hadn't actually crossed my mind that, oh yes, we have decongestants and analgesics in the house. I could take something for this headache.

Mirrorthaw is quite used to reminding me to take Advil because I almost never think of it on my own. This correlates, I think, with an attitude I know I inherited/learned from my mother, that one ought not to give in to pain; one ought to suffer stoically. (In high school, I ended up puking in the girls' restroom more than once because I couldn't bring myself to tell anyone that I had menstrual cramps like the wrath of god.) I think this connects with the gender conditioning that women receive, so that we learn to take care of other people before we take care of ourselves. Taking care of ourselves--even for women like myself who haven't a nurturing bone in our bodies--is branded "selfish" or "self-indulgent" or "malingering." And it's shameful, especially if it's somehow specifically female pain, like menstrual cramps or PMS migraines or what have you.

Other women I've talked to about this little mental disconnect have recognized it from their own experience. So what I want to know is, do men have this same problem? And is it all or most women, or have I just found a self-selecting sample?

Comments

[oracne.livejournal.com]

I will take painkillers, you bet. I also use ibuprofren for fever and once, when I bruised my knee badly, for inflammation. So I guess I am NOT one to avoid taking things for my own health.

I did feel guilty about calling a friend out of the blue on Tuesday to ask her if she could buy me some Gatorade and drive it over to me, but not too much...I was truly to sick to go out and get it myself, even though it was only a 2-3 blocks.

And sometimes I feel guilty about calling in sick to work, thinking 'waht if I'm just malingering?' but I always tamp it down firmly, because I know when I'm sick.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

It's not that I won't take painkillers--it's that I frequently don't THINK to take them until someone reminds me. I've completely internalized the idea that I should ignore pain until it goes away, and it drives me nuts, because, really, that's not such a good strategy.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

My mother has a thing about not taking medication for menstrual pain. When I mentioned to her (casually) that I was 25 before it occurred to me that those painkillers are sold for a reason, and that I couldn't believe how much simpler it was just to take the damn painkiller and feel the cramps go away than to suffer through it - she was quite shocked. She said she didn't think it was a good idea. I said I couldn't see what my pain was accomplishing. We had a little argument about it. I still take painkillers when I feel like I need them, which is usually 1 or 2 days every three weeks, and feel much better for it.

Right now? My shoulder hurts. But I am getting someone to come round and do a massage, which makes me feel (a) terribly luxurious: he will cost £15 for half an hour and (b) terribly practical: I am not self-defeatingly enduring this pain in my shoulder, I am Doing Something About It).

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

Boy, that sounds familiar. I started getting menstrual cramps when I was 13. My mother told me what they were, but did not tell me that there were medications you could take for them. In a later discussion (YEARS later, after I had been to a gynecologist and gotten the problem dealt with), she told me how bad her own menstrual cramps had been, and that they went away after the birth of her first child. Which, you know, great, except for the part where I was a college student, also unmarried ... and vile as my cramps were, it just doesn't seem like an adequate reason to become a mother. Pain medication seems so much simpler.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

One problem with being 100% lesbian... there never seems to be any reason to go to a gynecologist. Most women go, apparently, or are advised to go, when they get prescription contraception. Of course, I never have.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

Don't be sorry. You needed to say it, it looks like, and I was hoping to get responses that would help me assess my own perceptions (as everybody's responses have been doing).

Now--after years of suffering--I take Advil for menstrual cramps as soon as I feel them starting (nothing else works for me, and even Advil isn't perfect). I am also a big proponent of the heating pad. And I've trained myself to TALK about the fact that I have menstrual cramps--going violently against the precepts with which I was raised, in which such subjects were highly taboo--so that Mirrorthaw at least can know that if I seem preoccupied or grumpy, that's why. And I think learning how to talk about it casually also made a huge difference in my ability to just deal with it. Demystification makes everything better.

[jenett]

I retrained myself to take stuff early after having it pointed out to me (at the end of a very stressful job, when I was getting frequent migraines: I still get about one every 2 months now, which is much more bearable) is that taking - even Advil - *early* can often sidestep all or much of the headache entirely.

But you've got to take it in the first 20 minutes or so of when you go "Gee, my head feels funny." - otherwise, it doesn't work well. (I was at a point where I couldn't take anything more than that: prescription stuff had mostly stopped working effectively or couldn't be taken if I needed to drive in the near future, so I couldn't take them at work.)

There's nothing quite like "You know, if I take this early, I avoid the nasty pain bit entirely" as a motivating factor. These days, I still get some aura and other symptoms of migraines, but it rarely gets into pain, if I catch it fast.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

I've heard that about migraines more than once. My father used to get them, but he discovered that if he shut his eyes and lay down, or just sat somewhere and didn't move, for 15 minutes as soon as he noticed the symptoms starting, the migraine would back off.

Migraines are very strange. I'm glad you've found out how to manage yours.

Not just women...

[libskrat]

My husband has a thing about medicine too. He'll take anything he's actually been prescribed, but OTC meds are just Right Out, no matter how miserable he actually is.

I don't truck with that. I hurt, I take something or do something. I played the tough-it-out game with my hands, and ended up with loss of function, probably permanent. Not doing that again. Ever.

Re: Not just women...

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the data point. The answers I've gotten thus far are leading me to the conclusion that people are just weird about pain and about how they deal with it.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

I don't think I have that. I have a different thing, where I don't take painkillers because I don't want to get addicted.

So I take paracetamol with codeine when I have a migraine, or even a very bad headache, and I even think of taking it, but I don't take anything for ongoing chronic pain because that's a bad road to go down and I can manage. I don't take anything for cramps, though I seldom get cramps anyway with the hormonal IUD, because a hot water bottle works better for me.

I don't think there's anything morally wrong with painkillers, but it scares me when I hear people recommending them instead of treatment -- a friend of mine on LJ a little while ago had hurt a muscle, and there were a whole pile of concerned posts saying "take aspirin, take tylenol" and nobody saying "try deep heat, try a heating pad, try a hot bath, consider physio". And the thing is the pain is there for a reason, and it's there to warn you of something wrong, and taking a painkiller will switch off the warning without doing anything to actually _help_. Now with cramps or a migraine, switching it off is a good idea. With some other things, it isn't.

The whole thing is odd.

As far as taking care of yourself goes, do you think of putting Savlon/TCP/antiseptic cream on a cut that's looking ugly?

[libskrat]

Okay, you got me there. They gave me narcotics to take home after minor abdominal surgery few years back, and I pitched 'em. Wouldn't touch 'em.

Yes to painkillers masking real problem, also.

No to OTC antibiotic creams, though. Allergic. Found that out the hard way. *grin*

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

Antibiotic ointments are in a completely different class of decision making, I realized as soon as I read your question. Preventing things from getting infected is just common sense. (And believe me, I'm aware of the multivalent ironies in that statement.)

Chronic pain is a different-colored horse and one I haven't yet had to deal with. And, no, I have to take that back, because I do have chronic dyspepsia (acid reflux, but "dyspepsia" sounds so Victorian, I love using it), and that does cause chronic pain--goblins with blowtorches in the pit of one's stomach. I take medication for that, and in fact tend to monitor the state of my stomach much more carefully than I monitor things like headaches and muscle tension. On that front, I'm not stoic at all.

Huh. That's weird.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah. When I have menstrual cramps, three things are pretty effective.

One is going for a brisk walk for at least half an hour. This seems to get rid of the cramps at least while I'm walking, and frequently for some time after that.

Two is lying down with a hot water bottle on the site of the cramps: that also works, and is excellent if I'm just going to sleep.

Three is taking one or two ibuprofen.

Okay. If I'm at work - which there's a fair chance I will be for at least part of my periods - what do you think I'm going to be able to do?

Hot water bottle? Not nearly as effective if I'm sitting up, and tricky to manage in most offices anyway.

Brisk walk? Possible in my lunch hour. Not if it's 10am or 3pm.

Ibuprofen, ibuprofen, ibuprofen.

[heresluck]

Interesting question.

I deal with levels of discomfort and pain differently depending on how easy they are to deal with. Minor problems, like stuffed-up head (very common) or headache (less common) get dealt with immediately, with OTC drugs, because, my god, why not? Cheap, easy, and there's nothing at stake. There's no point being stoic, because (for me) there's nothing to be stoic *about*. It's just a stuffy nose; I get no karmic bonus points for being brave in the face of something that a) is very minor, if annoying, and b) afflicts practically everyone I know.

A quick look at my medical history, though, shows that major problems are a different story. I do deal with them, but I want to deal with them very privately. I don't want to talk about them. This partly has to do with cultural conditioning, the sense that it's bad manners to talk about the body, especially the female body; but it also has to do with a deep personal need to maintain the facade of Being Okay--for my benefit as much as anyone else's--as a way of coping with extreme physical stress.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

But, see, that's just it: It's just a headache. What are you making such a fuss about? Which, when fully internalized translates to not paying any attention to it until someone asks if you're feeling all right.

I suppose this attitude may also come from the Thing I Didn't Do To My Shoulder Blade. Skiing accident when I was fourteen--no, really--nothing was broken, but I was left with this intermittent stabbing, burning, horrible pain in my left shoulder blade. When I finally convinced my mother to take me to the doctor, the doctor (whom I cordially loathed anyway) did X-rays, and then, since there was nothing broken, told me there was nothing wrong. This is the sort of experience which, when inflicted on the young and impressionable, may tend to make them shut up about pain.

God, I can feel my shoulder blade tuning up its rusty razor-wire violin just thinking about it.

[libskrat]

Yah, doctors.

When I was 6 I took a header over my bicycle handlebars and dislocated several teeth. (Didn't knock them out, just -- dislocated them.)

Emergency room doc just stuck his hand in my mouth and tried to shove one back into place. During my scream of anguish I accidentally bit him hard enough to draw blood.

I still think he deserved it.

[heresluck]

Well, I don't *get* headaches, as a rule, so when I do get them my reaction isn't what are you making such a fuss about? It's more my head really fucking hurts, so hand over the painkillers, buddy. Similarly, the allergies thing: if I can't breathe, that's "minor" in the sense of "easily fixed," but not in the sense of "therefore shouldn't bother attempting to fix."

It occurs to me that long-standing shoulder blade trauma is not doing your current neck/shoulder/arm issues any favors, and is one more reason to go see somebody who does the appropriate kinds of bodywork.

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

I thought it was because I was raised as a Christian Scientist. It often doesn't occur to me take something for a headache or menstrual pain, though I think of it more often these days than when I was younger. At the same time, I feel more as if it's laziness that prompts me to turn to ibuprofen when meditation and soothing motion can be enough to do the job. I've suffered injuries (sprains and strains) to wrist and ankle without going to a doctor, but mostly because I couldn't afford the fees, and didn't expect they could do anything more for me than I could do for myself: i.e.: don't stress the injury, let it heal itself.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

I can see where Christian Science wouldn't help with this mindset problem. But, no, from our random sample it looks like people can get stuck in it other ways.

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

It sure does look that way. I guess I'm not as exceptional as I'd thought. :)

I wonder how random our sampling is, though; would we get as large a percentage of people with this mindset if checking more of a cross-section of the general populace?

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

That's SOMEBODY ELSE's sociology dissertation. :)

[renenet.livejournal.com]

Mark me down in your survey under non-stoic. I medicate early and often. I've had allergies and asthma my whole life and had plenty of ear infections and other sicknesses as a kid that my parents gave me kid medicine for, so I have no deep-seated sense that I'm supposed to grit through pain or discomfort. Headaches? The sooner I'm rid of them, the better. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not dumb about chronic pain. The muscles in my neck, shoulders, and upper back have been so tight and painful for the last month that I don't have anywhere near a full range of motion, but have I gone to see anyone about this? No, I have not. That's more about being too lazy to find a good massage therapist and make an appointment, though.

I don't remember my mom introducing the concept of painkillers for menstrual cramps, but, then, we were an aspirin household (for headaches) and I don't even know if that's effective on menstrual cramps. I think I learned about taking painkillers for cramps from Midol commercials. These days I take ibuprofen the instant I feel my period coming on and I keep taking it as I feel each dose wearing off. If I take something I can feel completely normal, but if I don't I get nearly useless with cramps and general achiness during the worst days of my period. I find that there's nothing to be gained by suffering through that. I could, I suppose, if I were allowed to sit and/or lie still on my couch, generally distracting myself with light entertainments and quietly sobbing my way through the worst bits. But I have things to do, places to go, people to see. I should torture myself why?

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

I think I learned about taking painkillers for cramps from Midol commercials.

Of course you did. *g*

And I completely agree: there is NO POINT in suffering through menstrual cramps when you can do something about it. My problem, in high school, was that it never occurred to me that there was anything I could do. See? Stupid about pain.

[renenet.livejournal.com]

Yes, well, stop that, please.

Maybe when you start to notice that you're in pain you should say out loud, "I have a headache" or whatever. Then perhaps it will register in your conscious mind and you'll smack yourself on the forehead and think, "oh, right, I can take something." Like the exchange with Mirrorthaw, but by yourself.

[diony.livejournal.com]

I've known several men who had major blocks against taking any sort of painkillers, no matter how severe the pain. In all these cases it seemed connected to some sort of scientific/rationalist worldview in which one must experience reality no matter how uncomfortable it is -- to do otherwise was seen as intellectually dishonest.

I will often forget to take painkillers but it's much more the case of feeling like it's not very important than any sort of principle; if I'm reminded I'll go right ahead. Then again, I know I'm horrible at taking care of myself & only slowly getting better.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

it's much more the case of feeling like it's not very important than any sort of principle; if I'm reminded I'll go right ahead.

And, see, that's exactly what I mean about being stupid about pain. It's not a principle; it's just not THINKING about it.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

My dad is bad about taking painkillers, or was. He recounted an experience a few years ago, when he had a really bad toothache (turned out to be a dead nerve) on Friday night, which meant he couldn't get to see a dentist until Monday. He was trying the usual remedies of aspirin/clove oil, and they weren't working. Even a mouthful of cold water, which often numbs the pain in a dead tooth, wasn't helping.

My parents had a lodger then who had rather bad RSI, and strong painkillers for when the pain got too much. She offered one to my dad, who took it, and he said (a) the pain just went away (which meant he could sleep, apart from anything else), and (b) he was astonished that it had never occurred to him before that you could take painkillers to relieve really bad tooth pain - I mean, he said, it was sort of logical and obvious, but he'd had the unexamined feeling that you should just suffer tooth pains.

[pameladean]

I have no tolerance for pain and won't put up with it. Well, if I have a choice. When I was having my agonizing teenaged menstrual cramps, there was no ibuprofen. I wouldn't go back there for a million dollars. Two million. Ten.

Anyway, the slightest pain and I'm on it in a heartbeat.

However, I don't have the wit to deal with a lot of other things -- fatigue and mental fog being the main ones. I can slow down until I almost stop and it just won't occur to me to either ask for help or assess the situation. I lost a relationship over that.

Pamela

[vass]

Self-selecting sample speaks up: it's me too.

For instance, I haven't taken anything for this upper respiratory thing I've had all week. I'm sure it's viral, so antibiotics wouldn't work, and decongestants, cough suppressants etc would just be "masking the pain" (what's wrong with that, anyway?).

I'm insane.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I recognise this. My mom was so careful to always tell me "don't take medicine unless you really really need it" so now I've grown into stoicism about every little headache pill. Which incidentally wasn't what she meant at all - she's all in favour of taking those as long as it's within the recommended limit.

Of course, I found out later that my grandmother had been abusing amfetamines and sleeping pills back in the fifties because no one said it was dangerous, so that might have something to do with mom's attitude.