Latin query

[truepenny]

For, lo, my Latin is woefully rusty, and I never really got the hang of either imperatives (especially in the negative) or the nuances of translating that handy little English verb "do":

How would you say "Don't do that!" in Latin? Ciceronian or medieval, I don't care which. "That" is the action of turning on the lights. Singular addressee, and I honestly don't know if it should be formal or familiar, since the speaker is a necromantic construct who has been stalking my protagonist and has designs on his body. ("Designs" as in "Oh what lovely and available real estate!" not as in carnality worthy of the Marquis de Sade.)

[Nota bene: Please, don't respond with links to English-to-Latin translators. I can do a Google search just as well as anybody else; the problem is that I don't trust the online translation engines to be correct. Likewise, please, don't respond with the results of putting "Don't do that!" into an online translator, unless you can then go on to testify from your own knowledge of Latin that the results are correct.]

Comments

[redbird]

cattitude says that if you were just saying "Don't!" suddenly it would be "Nec," "ne," or "non." "Don't do that" might, he says, be "Nec face!" (No dictionaries or net sources have been consulted here.)

[sovay]

"Don't do that!"

Technically I have replaced "that" with "this": Nōlī hoc facere!

[sovay]

The macrons appear to have gone weird: without them, Noli hoc facere! Or Noli illud facere! although the connotation of ille, illa, illud is more distant than hic, haec, hoc, so I'm not sure it would be the word that comes first to mind when snapping at someone.

[sovay]

You can also use the negative subjunctive, Nē faciās!

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

So what's the shade of meaning between noli hoc facere and nec facias?

[sovay]

(Ne facias; nec is "neither / nor.") There is no distinction in Latin between the second person formal and familiar—as you asked about—but noli + infinitive is a direct order, while the subjunctive is more politely put; may you not rather than don't you dare.

[truepenny.livejournal.com]

Thank you, that put it very clearly.

I'm going with noli facere, because this creature is much more likely to order than to request.

[sovay]

I'm going with noli facere, because this creature is much more likely to order than to request.

Cool. And very curious to read this story now!

[shadefell.livejournal.com]

My (mere) five years of Latin was going to suggest that phrase. Oh, the internet! So useful!

[sovay]

Whether you want to include the explicit direct object hoc / illud is another question, which I should have differentiated more clearly; unless the speaker particularly wants to underline whatever "that" is, noli facere and ne facias are probably more intuitive. Latin is a very compressible language; it does fine with implicit.

[thechildoftime.livejournal.com]

We're typing at the same time, and we seem to agree very well. :)

[thechildoftime.livejournal.com]

Noli facere vs. nec facias is like "stop that!" versus "please don't do that."

If something awful is going to happen if someone turns on the light, I would be much more likely to use the imperative. If I was more concerned about being polite than about getting the person I'm addressing to cut it out, I would be more likely to use the (jussive) subjunctive. It's command versus request.

[rogueprairiedog.livejournal.com]

I'm by no means a Latin scholar, but Redbird's remarks seem accurate. I'd also suggest that you might be able to use an alternate phrase--the one that comes to mind would be "non licet," or "It is not allowed." (The previous may be somewhat inaccurate, although off the top of my head it's fine. If so, please correct me. I am sheepish in advance.)

[thechildoftime.livejournal.com]

Many years of Latin instruction, including grad school, finally pay off: negative imperatives get an infinitive!

Thus: Noli illud facere!

*This and that are hic and illud, respectively. sovay has the correct latin for "Don't do this!" so I thought I'd chime in with, "Don't do that!"

[minerva710.livejournal.com]

I agree, it should be "noli illud facere" to make the negative singular imperative.

Also ok would be "noli facere" alone if said urgently or in a situation where what you aren't supposed to do doesn't need to be emphasized. Putting the illud in is almost "don't do THAT!". I would almost use the hoc, though, instead, since hic and ille aren't exactly "this" and "that". Ille is the correct term for what you requested, but hic might better express something very close to the speaker and the addressee. I don't think the regular imperatives get used much outside of textbooks, though, because it's a bit rude to command like that, but it sounds about right for addressing a necromantic construct- zombies don't rate the subjunctive, I think.

[thechildoftime.livejournal.com]

This is also true. I would say that noli facere is the best overall choice. In the situation you're describing (and in Latin in general), the object would likely be understood. This also explains why it feels so weird for me to type out noli illud facere.

[sovay]

What they said.

[(Anonymous)]

I would also suggest "hoc ne feceris!" (prohibitive subjunctive, to be technical, analogous to "tu ne quaesieris" in Horace) as an alternative to (equally good) "noli id facere".

aleksandra.kleczar@uj.edu.pl

[poshlil.livejournal.com]

You asking that has actually helped with my Latin homework. Thanks ever so!

Which is to say i'm of no use whatsoever, but do yell if you ever want something said in Ancient Greek. That i could do.