AKICILJ, Prince of Wales edition
Jan. 29th, 2010 02:57 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
truepennyI have a question which I just realized I don't know the answer to. It's spoilery for the first chapter of The Goblin Emperor--although it isn't anything that won't be equally evident from the dust jacket copy--so I shall put it behind a cut-tag.
I'm going to use an analogy, because it's much easier to explain than making you learn all these imaginary titles. Let's take an imaginary English king--Henry XX, say. Henry has two sons, Mortimer and Bernard.
Q1: My understanding is that Mortimer is Prince of Wales as the heir to the throne. Is the title contingent on his being the heir, or is his heirdom subordinate to his status as elder son?
Q2: Say Mortimer and Bernard both make it to adulthood. Mortimer marries and has a son, whom we shall call Edgar. Bernard is unmarried and has no progeny. Now, both Henry XX and Mortimer are killed--trampled by the enormous war-rhino from 300, although that's not relevant. Bernard becomes king. My question is about Edgar. Edgar's the heir to the throne. Does that mean he's the Prince of Wales?
Q3: If he is the Prince of Wales, does he stop being the Prince of Wales when Bernard, having hastily married, has a legitimate son (we'll call him Lucas)? Or does Edgar continue to be Prince of Wales, and Lucas becomes Duke of Clarence or York or whichever dukedom is next up in the hopper?
Q4: If Edgar ceases to be Prince of Wales--or is never Prince of Wales in the first place--does he get a royal dukedom? Or is he now just the king's nephew?
Q5: And while we're on the subject, what about Mortimer's widow Hortense? Is she still Princess of Wales after his death? If she is, does she continue to be the Princess of Wales, when, as in Q3 above, Lucas is born? Does she become the Dowager Princess of Wales at some point, and if so, when? When Mortimer dies? When Lucas is born? When Edgar marries? When Lucas marries?
It's all very confusing. o.O
ETA: In fact, it's so confusing I've got it wrong. (Elves and goblins apparently do not follow the same laws of primogeniture that the English do.) My analogy doesn't work, which means I don't have a real world model to follow or not follow as the whim takes me. It's all down to whim.
Thank you very much to everyone who has helped unmuddle my muddle.
I'm going to use an analogy, because it's much easier to explain than making you learn all these imaginary titles. Let's take an imaginary English king--Henry XX, say. Henry has two sons, Mortimer and Bernard.
Q1: My understanding is that Mortimer is Prince of Wales as the heir to the throne. Is the title contingent on his being the heir, or is his heirdom subordinate to his status as elder son?
Q2: Say Mortimer and Bernard both make it to adulthood. Mortimer marries and has a son, whom we shall call Edgar. Bernard is unmarried and has no progeny. Now, both Henry XX and Mortimer are killed--trampled by the enormous war-rhino from 300, although that's not relevant. Bernard becomes king. My question is about Edgar. Edgar's the heir to the throne. Does that mean he's the Prince of Wales?
Q3: If he is the Prince of Wales, does he stop being the Prince of Wales when Bernard, having hastily married, has a legitimate son (we'll call him Lucas)? Or does Edgar continue to be Prince of Wales, and Lucas becomes Duke of Clarence or York or whichever dukedom is next up in the hopper?
Q4: If Edgar ceases to be Prince of Wales--or is never Prince of Wales in the first place--does he get a royal dukedom? Or is he now just the king's nephew?
Q5: And while we're on the subject, what about Mortimer's widow Hortense? Is she still Princess of Wales after his death? If she is, does she continue to be the Princess of Wales, when, as in Q3 above, Lucas is born? Does she become the Dowager Princess of Wales at some point, and if so, when? When Mortimer dies? When Lucas is born? When Edgar marries? When Lucas marries?
It's all very confusing. o.O
ETA: In fact, it's so confusing I've got it wrong. (Elves and goblins apparently do not follow the same laws of primogeniture that the English do.) My analogy doesn't work, which means I don't have a real world model to follow or not follow as the whim takes me. It's all down to whim.
Thank you very much to everyone who has helped unmuddle my muddle.
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Date: 2010-01-29 09:13 pm (UTC)Q1. The heir to the throne does not have to be the Prince of Wales - it's a title invested by the monarch. So while Mortimer is the heir he doesn't have to be the PoW.
Q2. No, he becomes king at the death of Henry and Mortimer.
Q3. As soon as Edgar is born Bernard drops to third in line to the throne (joys of primogeniture). So Lucas would only be PoW if Edgar gives him the title. There is no hopper of ranks - all titles are either directly inherited or are invested by the monarch.
Q4. It's up to the King. It's likely that once Edgar was born that Bernard would have been given a hereditary title, but again, that's really up to Henry...
Q5. Yes, she'd probably keep the title, unless it was specifically removed by the monarch, which is one reason why Lucas is unlikely to be PoW.
Ah, the joys of the feudal system. It all really boils down to the "one man, one vote" system. The king is the man, and he has the vote.